top of page

Ashley On - Hacks for a Healthy Brain given Long Covid with Dr. Michael Turner (Rough Transcript)


Welcome to the show. Today’s show is with Dr. Michael Turner. Dr. Turner is a board certified physician and Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation. He received his medical degree from Harvard Medical School and completed his internship and residency at the Mayo Clinic. Specializing in integrative medicine and very much a thought leader when it comes to health and wellness and a combination of the right way to be healthy through both physician treatments as well as through diet and exercise and treating your body well. I hope you enjoy the show with Dr. Turner. As always, today's show is brought to you by Packed with Life adaptogen and mushroom tea. Packed with life is a delicious and refreshing mushroom beverage hot or over ice and delivers amazing health benefits such as supporting a strong immune system, increased focused and brain power, and all day energy without caffeine. A delicious all-day mushroom beverage that keeps you energized, focused and healthy, available online at PackedwithLife.com or on Amazon. Get your refreshing all day, decaf energy and Brain Boost today.


0:01:27.9 S1: I hope you enjoy the show. Dr. Turner, thank you for joining us today. Nice to meet you.


0:01:33.3 S2: Thank you. Very glad to be here, looking forward to it.


0:01:36.2 S1: Well, thank you so much for taking time. Our program is dedicated to health and wellness and innovations and spirituality as well as all of those things go together, you can't get to any of them without all of them, so thank you for your time, and I guess we'll just dive in and would love to hear you give us an introduction to yourself first and your expertise and what got you to this point.


0:02:03.6 S2: I'd be happy to do so. Well, my journey with health and wellness really began as a child, my mom was very naturalistic, very health-focused. She was a hippie basically. In the 60s, went to Cal Berkeley and I grew up in the Bay Area. She worked in a natural food store for a period of time in college, so when I was young, there was already emphasis on healthy living, there was minimal to no sugar, minimal processed food, she was making recipes from scratch, there's emphasis on me getting outdoors, me reading books, things like that, she never bought me a video game system. I was never allowed to have Twinkies and things like that, right? Stencil exactly caused a little bit of childhood angst, in fact, there was a very famous family incident where I got loose one day in the Twinkie of the store, I just couldn't contain myself, my mom came around the corner, family tearing into a box, a thinks I had to go apologize at the store manager, but yeah, overall very positive in that way, very health-focused, and then the second big event for me was my sophomore year of high school, so just public school health class.


0:03:15.9 S2: We're learning about the body, we're learning about the heart, the eyes, Muscogee Al system, etcetera, and this is all pretty fascinating to me, actually eye-opening, it's like looking under the hood, understanding what's going on inside your own skin and why it... So I was getting into it, and one time they had us write down everything we ate in a day, okay, everything, and every ingredient in it, and is how many grams of fat? Sugar, etcetera. So as I did this, I was shocked. I was dismayed, frankly, I was realizing that, Oh, I just went out to resist that I had a Snickers bar in a chocolate milk that's packing probably upwards of 35 grams of sugar and 15 grams of saturated fat or so... Right. Oh, and then look, I went home and I had two frozen bros for snack right after school, you know, it's nothing but a big car bomb pretty much... Oh look, I had a boater Al right before bed time. What's that about now? So when I actually ran the numbers, then it jolted me, and in an exuberant teenage way, I just started eating really strict... Today, we would call it eating clean, we didn't use that phrase back in that time, as you may recall, is it be like late 80s, early 90s? I was just eating low fat and lean meats, veggies, making smoothies, way protein start to run...


0:04:33.5 S2: Started to work out a lot. That kind of thing. So my personal health transformation really kick into high gear. I started to own it all, essentially sophomore year of high school, past forwarding a little bit, then towards present day, I went through my medical training, but I always carried along my emphasis on health wellness prevention, naturalistic methods. So I was a bit of an anomaly. As I went through Harvard Medical School, I was also the guy who was doing yoga classes, I was the guy who had a little Ziploc bag full of vitamins and supplements that I pull out of my scrubs and take when I'm on call in the hospital. I was bringing up questions in class about vitamin C and probiotics and checking people's Vitamin D levels and stuff, and I never really found any contradiction in it, because in my mind, the final common pathway is to help the person in front of you with a problem, and it doesn't matter exactly whether the best thing for them is they need to go have surgery on their appendix, or the best thing is they need to start making healthy smoothies every morning, 'cause they're eating a junky breakfast.


0:05:35.6 S2: Right, it doesn't really matter. The best thing, it could be, you need to be on a high blood pressure medicine right now because it's dangerously on high and you're at risk for a stroke, or it could be you need to do some intermittent fasting and some consistent cardio to help lose weight. So I just always made it my emphasis to be able to pull from any stream of thought to help the patient in the most cost-effective way possible with a preference towards natural son invasive concepts. So the best use-out word I would use to describe myself would be integrated medicine or holistic medicine. So that's what I practice, I have a national concierge practice, meet with people remotely all over the country, I'm also in clinic one day a week and enjoy it very much, it's an outgrowth of free... I am, I'm on an endless quest to be as healthy as I can possibly be, I think about that almost every day, what would it feel like to be as healthy as I can possibly be? That's my motivation, and then I share that knowledge with others.


0:06:34.3 S1: Thank you for doing what you do. That that's amazing. So many physicians, medical physicians and professionals have no idea about the power of nutrition on our brain health or our health in general, and I've been through some of that, I've had some issues with tinnitus and some vertigo issues along the way, and I started doing my research and I know, I see, you know, the diet can really play a role in that, and I talk to my physician about it, and literally she says, I don't know anything about that, I don't... I'd have to go back to... I'd have to go back to my days of medical school to see what they even taught us about nutrition... Right. So maybe speak to that. What was your experience at Harvard? Obviously, that's a very well-renowned institution and somewhere that you would think would be on top of the... On top of its game, when it comes to the most important things for health and wellness, what about nutrition when you were bringing those things up, was it... To you there at Harvard, in


0:07:37.4 S2: Large degree it was, yes. So they had dedicated nutrition classes, which was great, Harvard had undergone a revision of its curriculum, maybe about six or seven years before I arrived, towards small group learning, away from large group lectures, for example, collaboration, problem-solving, discussion, that type of vibe, so many assignments were done in small teams of other students with a preceptor or just hovering around, but you guys had to work through actual patient cases on paper and talk through it, look things up in the moment, make decisions, that kind of thing. It was really cool, but part of their advanced curriculum overview then was two, for example, incorporate information about nutrition, so yes, I'll give them a great job on that, it still left me with plenty of knowledge gaps that I had to fill in through self-study and mastery over the years, but it was a decent start that for sure, and at minimum, it would have awakened a decent respect for nutrition in any of their MD graduates, even if you didn't go on to really focus on that, you would have a decent respect for it.


0:08:47.2 S1: That's great, thank you for sharing that. I wish that every place did that, right, because a lot of... You gotta wonder when you learn about nutrition and health and wellness, you start to wonder what if everybody knew about this, what kind of diseases would just disappear completely. Yeah, absolutely.


0:09:09.8 S2: In my mind, a nice bridge as I talk to some of my medical colleagues, for example, his Vitamin D, Vitamin D, Is that alternative medicine or is it mainstream medicine? It's interesting, it's become way more mainstream over the last 10 years, which is great, I did a lot of vitamin D research when I was at the Mayo Clinic from my residency, so it's become sort of a pet project of mine. And what was interesting was we were finding articles way back in probably the late 90s and early 2000s that you could take older decrepit people who are at risk for falls and have low bond and city and such, you can bring their vitamin D levels up and you can watch their three-dimensional physical frame get stronger, you can watch the bone density go up, you can watch the fall risk go down, and you can even watch their muscle strength go up, and you can watch very specific functional tasks. They have something called a time to get up and go test. Basically, patient is sitting in a chair, they hit the stop watch, how long does it take patients to stand up and walk 10 feet...


0:10:10.6 S2: Time to get up and go. Okay, when you get their vitamin D levels up, the old people got up out of the chair and walk 10 feet faster, statistically, significantly differently. Better than otherwise. Right, that was pretty striking. And my field grew out of rehabilitation, Physical Medicine, and Rehabilitation was my precise residency field, so this was highly interesting to me, but you could go on, we now know even within mainstream medicine that Vitamin D is very related to autoimmune problems, so you want a high vitamin D-level, if you have auto new problems, for example, neurologists, one of the first things they do for patients who have multiple sclerosis MS as they check their vitamin levels and they crank them up... That's just mainstream neurology. Even at this point, we know that Vitamin D is very related to the strength of your immune system, and in particular covid, so again, you can risk stratify people, we know that the lower the vitamin D level higher, the chance you're going into the hospital of covid and the worst you will do, we know that and the opposite is also true because of its role in immune system, so vitamin D is a nice crossover concept I would encourage people to think about...


0:11:14.7 S2: Or discuss with your health care provider. For example, it opens up this door way in many traditional providers minds about the absolute functional and physiologic impact of certain vitamins all the way up to preventing hospitalizations in death, as in the case of...


0:11:28.8 S1: Come awesome. Talking a little bit about... We wanted to get into brain health in this conversation and tell us what does vitamin D impact the cognitive capabilities as well.


0:11:44.8 S2: Perhaps do a degree, but it's not one of my top concepts for cognitive folks, actually, no, I'd be happy to share some other ones with you but there are some heavier hitting supplements and lifestyle and food choices that would affect the ring...


0:11:56.9 S1: Yeah, let's dig into that a little bit too, because I think that, you know, especially as one gets older and starts to age, you start to realize and you see people around you, you see older folks who are suffering from Parkinson's or Alzheimer's or dementia, all kinds of different types of neurological disorders, and so I think we've gotten a lot of good response on this program around ways to kinda healthy hacks for the brain and things that people can factor into their diet or into their supplement routine, or their exercise routine, or all the above. To really make sure your brain is staying strong, and that also dovetails into covid because the covid, with brain fog being a symptom in terms of the long covid impact, I'd like to get your point of view on that as well, with regards to the brain. Okay.


0:12:49.4 S2: Sure. Well, a couple of my top suggestions for brain health and wellness, then the first one is exercise, if I have to ask someone to do only one thing that's good for their brain, it's not read a book, it's not learn an instrument, it's not... Do is to do cause it's exercise, it's the single most important intervention that could possibly be done, it's very, very striking, and the reason is exercise benefits the brain in multiple ways, not just one way, but the most significant way is blood flow. Let's just understand the concept of blood flow to your brain, I use the image of a dimmer switch on your wall, your brain has a certain amount of blood flow carrying towards it, and because it has a high oxygen demand and a high demand for blood sugar in order to run all the activity of the nerves, so they're sucking up oxygen, they're sucking a blood sugar, therefore they must have adequate blood flow to deliver that, so they are very sensitive to blood flow, this is why a stroke happens when you have a blood flow problem, a stroke is a blood clot or a ruptured blood vessel in the brain, which then leads to impaired blood delivery to a section of nerves, and then when the nerves become dysfunctional and diet, you have a stroke.


0:14:04.6 S2: So the connection is so strongly, if your blood flow is impaired even for moments in time, the nerves began to go offline and die even...


0:14:15.8 S1: So get exercise. Any type of exercise? Just walking even. Is that enough?


0:14:20.4 S2: Even walking. Sure, yeah. Even walking. Yes, absolutely. Some light cardio, getting your heart rate up a little bit, but yeah, we wanna dial up blood flow to the brain, and when you exercise, you do that, exercise also stimulates release of something called BDNF, BDNF, it stands for brain-derived neurotrophic factor. This is interesting, most people haven't heard about this from the neuroscience side, it's fascinating, BDNF is like Miracle Grow for the brain, like you spring a Miracle Grow on the tomatoes and they pick up, you sprinkle BDNF on the neurons in brain and they perk up. It's a natural substance that's released from within your brain, and when its president high levels, it causes the nerve connections to plump up, the neuro circuitry is strengthened in any given region, but it's especially important for regions of learning and memory. Therefore, the question is, How do we maximize BDNF levels? Is there anything from a lifestyle diet supplement viewpoint that will actually increase BDNF levels in our brain because it's Miracle Grow for our nurse? The answer is yes, we can. And exercise is one thing that does that... One of the most potent experiments that got my attention on this, I read about actually in the New York Times health article section probably about 10 years ago, and it was a cognitive experiment where they took people and gave them 20 random faces and had you tried to pair that with 20 names.


0:15:58.4 S2: And then they divided those people into two groups, one group they had and just to sit down in a chair and look out the window and do nothing special, the other group they had write a exercise bike at a mild to moderate intensity, then they brought him back re-tested them after X period of time, and guess what, who was smarter, who had better recall the people on the bike significantly better, and they've done variations of this study and it's always the same, this is a very robust finding when you exercise, you immediately become smarter more cognitively aware. Better processing, better memory, better recall, better IQ in the subsequent several hours after about of exercise, this is well established, that's pretty... The reason is blood flow, and the reason is BDNF, they checked people's BDNF levels in that experiment that I just mentioned, and sure enough there was a nice burst of BDNF after the exercise, so that's my first overall concept for brine. Pretty fascinating. So get some exercise. Right. So that's a fantasy. What else? Yeah, besides that, I would say there are certain foods that are important to avoid and to pursue as far as brain health, so conceptually, we'll talk about what's negative, anything that would promote inflammation in your brain is negative, right.


0:17:20.3 S2: So foods that promote inflammation, like sugar, for example, or saturated fats are negative, on the flip side, you could look up an anti-inflammatory diet and you'll see that there's a lot of information about that, there are certain spaces, for example, that are anti-inflammatory, like turmeric, curcumin, ginger, things like that. The next thing would be the idea of oxidative stress, oxidative stress is a negative concept for the brain, just like inflammation is... And they're very closely related. Oxidative stress is the basically, the idea that oxygen is a double-edged sword on the one hand, it's necessary for life, because we bring it into ourselves and we use it to combust a molecule of carb or a molecule of fat, we burn that molecule carb or that multiple fat in the presence of oxygen. Just like a blast furnace and outcomes heat and outcomes of energy for life, however, just like a blast furnace, there's blow back, there are side effects, there sparks, it's not a perfect biochemical process, that's the idea of oxidative stress, you're bringing oxygen in there, it's tearing up your car or your sugar molecule inside yourself, but it's also tearing up your cell to a degree that talks to data stress, and we need to quench that, we don't want that to get out of control.


0:18:39.2 S2: So you can think about it like five safety guys standing around this huge glass furnaces and a steel mill or something like that with fire extinguishers, anything that's flying out that's threatening to destroy the building, they're hitting it with their fire extinguishers and dampening it out. That's what an anti-oxidant does because of the oxygen molecule or related molecules get loose, they start tearing up your DNA, your cell membrane, etcetera, which pains premature aging in any given organ system, so that's the idea of oxidative stress, by the way, a hangover is oxidative stress it's the same thing, you drink too much, the alcohol gets losing, your brain tears up, your nerves tears up to cell membranes, react, and then you wake up the next morning, you feel hung over, that feeling is oxidative stress in your brain, that's also the same feeling of staying up too late, if you stayed up all night studying for finals or something, you're stressed at your job, you had a big product and your brain's not working the next day, the reason it's not working the next day is because it's under oxidative stress. You did not give it the rest period it needed to clean up the mess from the metabolism of that day, essentially.


0:19:41.5 S2: So for that reason, anything that is an anti-oxidant is helpful for your brain, antioxidant food, simply put, would be brightly colored fruits and vegetables, that's the simple answer, brightly colored fruits and vegetables that color mimics their antioxidant content. Specific foods like blueberries have been shown in research studies to be very associated with good brain function, I'm in favor, of course, of green leafy vegetables, kale spinach, that type thing. There are supplements that are direct anti-axes that can cross the brain... That's important to understand. Vitamin C is my favorite one. Vitamin E, there's a bunch of things healthy for the body, we know that, but it is an antioxidant and it can directly cross the blood-brain barrier, that's a big... As you may know, there's the so-called blood brain barrier, your body does not allow any old thing floating around in your circulation to move into your brain, not at all, it's very protective, it's very judicious about what it would allow... Why? Because it's trying to protect you. So imagine that you were at a family reunion. Over the summer, it was a hot day, there's a picnic and there was some potato salad and Macron sad that we sing for a while, it was a little questionable, but...


0:20:52.3 S2: You were hungry. Did looked good. It was at Sally's favorite signature dish, so you ate some and all of sudden you're going home, you're feeling quiz. You got food poisoning. Okay, so got this toxic E. Coli bacteria floating around your GI tract, sending up toxins, those things enter through your GI tract if your barrier is not intact enough, and now they're in your bloodstream, and now you're feeling perhaps fever is sweaty, crappy. You're laying on the couch, you've got official food poison going on, you can imagine, you don't want those taxes to just float up getting you your brain and get a lot easy access there either. Right, so just conceptually, that shows you the idea of the blood-brain barrier is a last resort concept for your body is very selective about what it will allow into your brain, therefore, although antioxidants by and large, good not everything can cross into the blood-brain barrier, but Vitamin C is an anti-oxide can cross the blood-brain barrier. Fantastic, I'll give you another freebie, which is N-A-C neck, and Ace antioxidant function, also potent anti-inflammatory function, also strongly crosses into the blood-brain barrier, readily available, safe and expensive.


0:22:01.8 S2: So I'm a huge tranche


0:22:05.1 S1: You for sharing that. That sounds like I'm on the right track. I take vitamin C-N-A-C every day. So I'm glad that you're sharing that with our audience here... One thing, just on the antioxidant conversation. Yeah, yeah. What is your opinion? I'm not sure if you're aware of this 'cause a lot of people aren't... The National Institute of Health actually holds a patent on cannabinoids as an antioxidant and neuroprotective... It's patent number 6630507. Interesting that cannabis is an antioxidant and has actually patented by the National Institute of Health. Were you aware of that? And do you have any experience with cannabinoids acting as an anti-accident?


0:22:53.3 S2: I wasn't aware of that. I think it's fantastic. I am aware of cannabinoids to a degree, typically, in my experience with them would come into muscle relaxation, pain relief, their ability to help with adrenal dysfunction, so usually I would have someone dose like an oral cannabis Indica at bed time or something like that, which would help with their sleep, they're paying in their adrenal function, that's the typical way that I know about it, but I also know on the side of covid that certain strains of CBD have been shown to buy into the spike protein, which is phenomenal. That's an important concept. So


0:23:27.6 S1: That's my foreign to CBD, is the spike protein. Is that part of what the problem is with Lon covid in the brain? Yes.


0:23:37.7 S2: Yes. If you wanna talk more about that, we can, but...


0:23:39.9 S1: Yes, yeah, let's talk about that 'cause I think it ties right into brain health, and I have long covid symptoms, I had it over a year and a half ago, and I still... My taste and smell are still off and I've had... Have been suffering through some brain inflammation as a result of that as Well...


0:23:59.6 S2: Goodness, I'm sorry to hear it. First thing I would love to communicate to you and your listeners is that effective treatment for long covid is possible, it absolutely is possible. This is something that can effectively be treated, people can move on and move past it, you just have to find the right position to help you... In particular, the single best treatment program is going to be through the FCC, if your listeners are not familiar with the LCC, they need to be A stands for front line covid Critical Care Alliance F-LCC. This was a group of doctors that came together in the worst moments of covid when I was sweeping through New York City, if you recall, and we were seeing gas Limoges on the news of people being pulled out and stretchers and stuff thinkers, a group of ICU doctors who initially came together just to share ideas and best practices on how to treat covid, how do we keep people alive once they hit the hospital, we're being overwhelmed, what's the best practice should be ventilate the patient, should we... Not all that stuff. Well, it's interesting is right from the beginning, they had a very integrative approach, so right in their first covid protocol, they were talking about high dose vitamin C, intravenous should be used very effective, here's why they're advocating that and most hospitals didn't have that available.


0:25:14.3 S2: Again, that's kind of considered alternative medicine, but they had shown scientifically and pragmatically that was helpful. Fast forward, the CCC has grown in strength and numbers and influence over the last several years, which is great, they now publish a variety of protocols, including long covid, so if you find the LCC long covid protocol, that's your recipe book to begin to get... Well, they're a variety of supplements that they list with specific dosages, there are a variety of lifestyle interventions that they list, and then there are certain medications that can absolutely. Be helpful. So when I work with someone, I use LCC as a jumping off point, I'm not a slave to it, but it's very, very helpful, and I build on it as needed for the patient's best interest. To go to your question, a brain in covid... Here's the bad news, the good news is treatable, as I just got done saying, But we have to understand the bananas for a second, so the bad news has to do with the spike protein for the most part. If you look up covid spike protein on the internet, you'll see a nice visual aid, you'll see something usually colored red, okay, looks like a little triangle, and you're gonna see a little or sitting there, which is the virus particle, and then it's ringed by these red triangles hanging off of it to represent the so-called spike proteins, do what I describe these is there like grappling hooks, virus particles flow them through space, loan to your bloodstream, and then it's got these grappling hooks that hit certain receptors, DAS 2 receptor, and then worms its way inside your cell, once it does that, its entry point starts off in the nose and the mouth, that's its entry point into your body, it then tries to spread into your lungs, it then this to spread from your lungs into your bloodstream and want to see your blood stream can go everywhere.


0:27:07.5 S2: One of the ways that it can reach the brain quickly is the entry point of the nose, this is why people lose our sense of smell pretty quickly, which can also affect your sense of taste, and if that travels backwards successful into the brain, then it can affect any number of functions in the brain very quickly, including things like... I got a horse, I had trouble swallowing. My face went partly, I definitely lost my sensation, smell this and that. Okay, through the nose, it'll access right back quickly then through into the brain, the spike protein is a toxic, nasty, noxious protein, your body recognizes that it's foreign and it immediately amounts an aggressive immune response. I want you to think of a splinter, and splinter is the definition on a macro level of inflammation, that redness, that swelling... What is that? That's your immune system cells recognizing this piece of wood is foreign swooping in there and starting to destroy it to get it out of your body and break it down, in the process, there's some swelling, there's some redness, there's some pain, and there's some collateral damage of nearby cells getting caught up in the process.


0:28:26.1 S2: Spike protein acts like a splinter in your body. It provokes a strong immune response wherever it's found, so now you got these microscopic spike protein splinters scattering through your bloodstream, potentially entering your brain itself and wherever they go, they attract a strong amine response. So if you have nerves that are inflamed and getting caught up in collateral damage of your immune system trying to destroy the spike protein, you're going to have a nerve dysfunction of different kinds, you're gonna have elevated levels of inflammation, you're gonna have brain fog, for example, and even the capability of specific neurologic deficits, that's not the only problem, so Spike protein wherever it goes, cause inflammation, that's a problem, but besides that, it impairs blood flow directly... It directly impairs blood flow, which is exact opposite of what your brain needs it... We were talking about that at the beginning, right? How does spike protein interfere with blood flow? A couple of ways, first of all, it causes platelets to... Cluny-platelets are the parts of your blood that are responsible for initiating so-called coagulation cascade, which would basically be the initiating a series of events in forming a blood, your plate, that's how the first responder role, spike protein turns on the platelets, basically activates them.


0:29:43.3 S2: So they start looking to clothe and wherever they can... The other thing that spike protein does is it... Because it tracks an immune response, it hits the walls of your blood vessels and you're getting that microscopic inflammation, you're getting that immune response, so now you have swollen inflamed lining of the blood vessels, endothelial damage. And the final thing is that endothelial damage means that the blood vessel does not relax and dilate like it normally would, this has to do with something called nitric oxide, which is a signaling molecule for endothelial relaxation. This is how Viagra works, for example. But the spike protein directly damages endothelial production of nitric oxide, therefore inhibiting the typical responsive dilation that would be seen. So we've got platelets clumping, we've got inflammation damage to the endothelial lining, and we have the inability and the alum to dilate, and when you add that all up, you're gonna get everything from transient impairment of blood flow to microcontroller... Plot is a heart attack or stroke. Frankly, the micro-plots are a little more complicated concept, they're typically not seen if you've got an ultrasound or even on an MRI, but they're absolutely a phenomenon and long covid, just to give you an example, there's a doctor raised a pretorius out of South Africa who's done a lot of work on this, she took all of her long covid patients, 100% of them, when she did special imaging to look for the Prince of microcode, had it, and none of the people who resolved from covid had it, so I was very discriminate or it's part of the definition of having long code, if you have long covid stars, we can tell you have microcontroller shop cuts show up on an MRI.


0:31:30.9 S2: No. Wow, do you have to do something called dark field microscopy? And I'm not always sure how readily and where that is available in our country, it is in certain academic and research type centers, but yeah, dark field microscopy for micro-plots pretorius out of South Africa has published a lot about that.


0:31:54.0 S1: Wow. Yeah, mutton pack there. And thank you for sharing the FL CCC, the can be a great resource for our audience to do suffering from any of these sorts of symptoms, I don't wanna get in... Create a political debate, that's not the style of this show, but with the vaccines, aren't the vaccines, aren't they putting spike protein into your body intentionally? Or am I misinformed? They are. So why would we there... Wanna do that?


0:32:35.1 S2: Great question. We would never wanna do that if we cared about human health, that's so...


0:32:42.4 S1: That it seems to be the obvious thing based on how you just described everything, I don't know how you... One could come to a different conclusion.


0:32:49.9 S2: Absolutely, so I'm not a conspiracy theorist type guy, and I believe in giving people to benefit to the doubt, I believe in thinking Well of others and all that stuff, so... To put it in the best possible light. And I did a lot of research and reading about this, right. The question was, why didn't we do a more traditional vaccine, where they typically take the offending agent, they slice and dice pieces of the fending agent, and then they feed a little small fragments of it to your immune system, it so that you can mount a response, but they don't give you the whole offending agent, and any little fragment of it that they do put in your body is not in and of itself dangerous or capable of causing a problem, that's the definition of a traditional vaccine. This thing was different. This thing involved a spike protein as the so-called piece of the virus, but it turns out that piece that fragment is highly toxic in all the ways that I just mentioned, now we can say they didn't know that perhaps at first that we picked the wrong target we thought the spike protein would be a great target because if I show your body spike protein and you get an antibody that buy in spike protein, then when covid virus it floats around and shows up, you've got a bunch of antibodies that will form and it won't be able to enter yourselves Walla, which is a fine concept, that's a fair enough concept.


0:34:11.4 S2: The million dollar plot twist is the spike protein itself is a problem. It's not just the way that covid enters yourselves. It's the way the covid causes a problem. In fact, it's the main way that covid causes a problem, in fact, you could strip out covid and just drop spike protein in your body and you would get covid long covid, Go to the hospital, die and everything else, because it is essentially a 100% of the way that covid causes a problem. So therefore, when we decided that we're gonna put spike protein people's bodies with the vaccine, we just picked basically the 100% way covid caused a problem and decided to do that intentionally to people. So when this all came out, when we all started to understand the vaccine, at that point, I do have to start to point some fingers because the thing should have been recalled immediately to the... Watergate, correct. The antigenic, MEA COPA, that says, My gosh, everyone, you know, we tried to roll this thing out and has to deal with covid, there were a lot of public health and economic pressures, you get this pandemic under control. We pick this target, but the more we study, the more we find out that this target is actually a problem, and therefore we have a very high side effect rate, we're going back to the drawing board, we're doing new R and D, and we're gonna come up with the better vaccine.


0:35:26.1 S2: It doesn't expose you to spike protein. That's what should have happened. It did not. What's interesting is the vaccine-induced spike protein is actually worse than the covid spike protein from a natural infection. It's worse. It's not just the same, it's actually worse in a couple of ways, but first of all, the covid virus is an RNA virus. Its MRNA is basically a strand of information, and that strand of information, once the virus gets inside yourself Hijacks your cell and it's used as a template to build a new virus. Fair enough, this vaccine is an MRNA vaccine, as you know, so we throw in into your cell a strand of information, not to build the whole new virus, but just to build the spike protein, as I said, that's just as bad. However, right, so the strand of the RNA that the vaccine throws inside yourself, is it the same as the Strata that comes from a natural Cove infection? No, it's not at all. It's bio-engineered. In what ways is it? Bio-engineering, well, it's bio-engineered in a way to persist a lot longer, to evade detection by your immune system, to evade degradation, and to pump out essentially about a thousand more fold burst of Spike proteins off of any given half life of that MRNA strength.


0:36:58.3 S2: It's super potent. Now again, on the vaccine side, this was on purpose, and this would make some sense, right, if you're gonna drop an MRNA strand in someone's body as a vaccine, and your goal is to get this thing to be as active as possible for as long as possible, because you want as robust a response to the vaccine as possible, you don't want to give them the shot and you have to give them a booster two weeks later because their body to degrade the MRNA straps. Their whole idea was, how do we design this MRNA detection by the immune system, Eva degradation, and furthermore, how do we adjust it a little bit molecularly so that it produces a huge burst of what we want, given the time that we have... When this thing is still active with me, so it makes perfect sense from their side, however, now that knowing the spike proteins toxic, it's sort of adding insult to injury, essentially.


0:37:49.3 S1: Well, this is where I get confused and frustrated because people say to trust the science, but science is about... It should be about the truth, it shouldn't be pseudo science, which is trying to use science to prove your own existing hypothesis, it... This seems to be a classic example of pseudoscience as opposed to true science based on what you're sharing...


0:38:19.0 S2: I hear where you're coming from. I see it very similarly, in my side of it, I would say, this is an example of collusion, it's an example of greed, it's example of lobbying, it's an example of public health people and politicians grabbing hold of things and making decisions that are not actually based on the most current science, the time legs, so to speak, between that and then it gets into censorship and lack of free flow of information, to your point, science is based on questioning things, it's based on, Show me the data. And we have to have a free flow of information, we have to have to say if we don't have that, we don't have science, we have a dogmatism, essentially, we have a totalitarian state, we've got China with censored media or whatever else you're only allowed to see and think what people want, see, and thinking outside of that, you're labeled a dissonant or political instruction IST or something, and you got a bad future waiting, you... We've started to move in that zone as regards covid, which is highly concerning regardless of what side of political spectrum you're on, it's highly concerning that in our country, which was founded on the Bill of Rights, freedom of the press, treating to speak our mind, information and all that stuff, we've now seen things happen, like doctor's licenses being pulled because they questioned the vaccines or because they wanted to prescribe, I ever make in...


0:39:41.0 S2: We've seen people, social media cows, YouTube, internet presence just disappeared, wiped off, influential prominent people, MDs, PhDs, educators, experts in their field, speaking on their field of expertise, speaking scientifically. Silenced discredited all that. Yeah, so that's very concerning. We need to take back our freedoms as a society in that sense and say, Look, this is bigger than covid, this is bigger than vaccines, this big an advisor's influence over our government, and how the NIH and Touche is in bed with all these people getting kickbacks, we know all that that got exposed to their RFK Book, the real Anthony face, which everyone should read by the way, a tremendous book, the movie was also made about it, so we know that that's all going on, but we have to use this particular example to take a giant step back and say, My gosh, there's a tremendous level of corruption that is going on in our... We'll call it medical industrial complex right now, and it's not conducive to the individual Americans, health and well-being, we gotta make some changes. Let's just call it an eye-opening event and let's do something different better


0:40:51.0 S1: To spring back real science, which is questioning what we thought and trying to prove the truth, so without going too much further into that topic, 'cause again, I wanna be more uplifting and hopeful through our conversations, but the concept of medical freedom... Right, that's a growing concept I've been reading a lot about and hearing more about, and kudos to you for having the courage to talk about this openly and again, without being a conspiracy theorist or anything, just stating, Here's the facts, and have you gotten personal pressure from a medical standpoint for approaching this more in a true science fashion...


0:41:37.6 S2: Yes, yes, very much so. Thankfully, I worked for myself at this point, which was fantastic timing, I look at is God's blessing on my medical career, I resigned my hospital job in 2020, and I went into business for myself to do concierge integrated medicine, which was always my passion. Covid hit of course, two, three months later, so I was uniquely positioned to be independent and just were holistically in patients best interest, whatever that would mean. When I learned about hibernian, I looked into it, you know what, I'm not saying it's the end all be all, most amazing medicine that does everything, but you know what, it's got strong activity against covid... If I had to give it a letter grade, I'd give it a B plus or an A minus. So let me start using it for my covid patient, something's better than nothing, 'cause right now they're not being told anything other than just tough it out to... You can't breathe anymore. Right. That was an acceptable answer. So I look into Habermas very detailed protocols about Ivermectin, they're probably the organization as research at the most as regards covid, and so I just started following their dosing recommendations, literally kept people out of the hospital, literally saved lives with the Ivermectin, without a doubt, I can name scores of cases.


0:42:44.7 S2: Thank you. That brought me under investigation from Washington State Medical Board, and what's interesting is, there was a hit piece done on me through a local radio station and newspaper, or TV station in newspaper, they had come by my office. It was a Friday afternoon. The report came back, I was busy with a patient. Drop off a business card at my front desk, I'd come out after my patient, my staff says, Hey, so until it's here, they wanna interview, you know for some story and I go, Oh, that's interesting. I look at the business card, alright, well, I'm obviously busy with patients, they'll call him back next week and sit down, figure out they want... Take about, I finish my day, it's about 630, I go work out, I'm at the gym, and my phone starts exploding with phone calls and text messages, and they're mainly from the owner of the facility that I was working in as an independent contractor, but the larger facility the owner that facility goes... Our name is all over the news right now, are you seeing the news? What's going on? They're talking about, you're prescribing some quack medicine, some horse thing for patients, is that what you're doing in our facility, like What in the world? So he's not eclectic about the situation, so...


0:43:58.7 S2: Yeah, so I have to meet them the next day, talk him down, and I... First of all said, I don't know what you're talking about. I was never on any TV show. I truly don't even know what some... I don't even watch TV, but anyway, I don't know what you're talking about. Oh wait, you mean is that possibly this lady who dropped off his business card, and sure enough, that's what it was. They dropped in Dash, she dropped off a card with me in the middle of my patient afternoon, busy doctor dashed and aired the story two hours later, which was a hit piece, build with straight propaganda pictures of horses and veterinary medicine and all this with a very concerned look on the person space, like a pre-done, pre-edited promo pieces like we're concerned, have you heard about this? Ivermectin is being utilized sometimes, and it's a horse medicine and people are dying from this stuff and blah, blah, blah, under no circumstances should you use that, but you know what, there's a local doctor who's prescribing it... Bam, here's my name, here's a picture of the place I work, all this stuff.


0:44:53.2 S2: And then they say, You know, he declined to comment or something, which is a total lie, 100% a lot. Or hatchet job. And then this got published on their social media, got public on their website, and right underneath this whole article about how terrible Dr. Turner is for prescribing everyman as irresponsible and rash, right underneath that they say, By the way, here's this number for Washington State Medical Commission, if you wanna file a complaint for anybody who's not practising appropriate medicine, I'm just saying... Coincidentally, we're just gonna put that right here next to the article is what they did. Yeah. And so here's what's interesting. Since that's happened, I've had several complaints go to the Washington State Medical Commission for me prescribing Ivermectin, they come back, they wanna ask me for records, ask a bunch of questions, all this stuff, I have a lawyer working with me. Frankly, I'm not afraid at all. 0% fear 'cause I've done nothing wrong. I know that I have maciel, it's got a scientific basis to be helpful, I do all my documentation, my pace is charts, I interview everybody. It's all great, it's a great medical care...


0:45:57.3 S2: Noel might not like it, but that's the governor in our state. But that doesn't matter, I'm not responsible to... Hellespont will take care of my patient. So that is what it is. But here's what's interesting, no patient has ever been harmed for me doing this, no patient has ever complained in any way about my care related to this, the things that get Lane with Washington, they are never from the patient, it's gonna be like the patient's aunt over in a more liberal part of the state, and she calls Washington State and basically in arson me and says, You know what, my niece is being treated by this clock down in Tri-Cities, Washington with I ever make and stuff. I think I should look into him. Okay, that's exactly what will happen. Or some in law who gets word of it and they've got a political act to grind about the whole idea, 'cause their emotions are all worked up about it, and maybe they watched the news clip or whatever, and they're like, Yeah, I gotta report this guy... No actual patients reported me, and no actual harm to a patient was ever documented or even proposed, this is all third-hand stuff about people who basically don't like what I'm doing and wanna invoke the power of the state to shut me down.


0:47:07.2 S2: That's a fact.


0:47:08.5 S1: Wow, I'm sorry that you're going through that, but thank you, thank you for your courage and your persistence in the face of that on slow, which is just designed to break you, I'm sure. Right, so did they threaten to take away your medical license or is that... I know that's happening in California already. It's been happening for a while, is that... Are you in a better place with Washington? Or are you fighting to try to defend that...


0:47:35.4 S2: Ultimately, I'm Friday to defend that. That'd be like the death penalty... Right, that'd be the ultimate form now, they haven't said that they would do that yet, I'm just under investigation, they have not come back and said, and this is our verdict on what we were gonna do about it, so I don't know.


0:47:52.7 S1: Well... God be with you. As switching gears a little bit. Running up, toward the end of our time together. One thing I wanted to ask you about was your experience with functional mushrooms. I talk a lot about, on this show about functional mushrooms like Lion's Mane, Chaga, Cordyceps and Reishi not the magic kind, but the more functional nutritious kind. What's your experience with Lion's Mane, Chaga, Cordyceps and Reishi in terms of a supplement for brain health in general, just for good health and wellness.


0:48:27.6 S2: Great question, I'm a big fan of mushroom extracts, I recommend them all the time to my patients, typically as regards... Strengthen their immune system. Okay, so people come in and they say, whether it's concerned about covid or anything else, they say, I wanna strengthen my immune system, I say, Great, let's talk about baseline stuff, your vitamin C, avoiding sugar. Getting some exercise, eating clean, once we go past baseline, I tell them It's about mushroom extracts and it's about aged garlic, and I tell them I'm gonna link you out right now to my favorite mushroom extracts that are known to boost your immune system into my favorite aged garlic extracts. And that's what I do. Patients love it. I've had patients who come in with documented low T cell counts, there are certain important cell lines like CD4 and CD8 cells, if you hear of these, they'll come in and these things are low. By the way, that's a definition of HIV and age, if your CD for counts drop too low, that's the definition of that disease, so it can be as a paralysis that... Yes, so people will come in with low levels for whatever different reasons, not necessarily saying that it aids, but they'll come and they'll obviously have a week and immune system, they'll be concerned, and I'll start them on some of these mushrooms and aged garlic and their CD Council for an CDOT will come up.


0:49:39.3 S2: Absolutely, I've seen it a number of times. 25 per 30% even. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, so I'm a big fan. Mushrooms like Lion's Mane, Chaga, Cordyceps and Reishi are known to stimulate the immune system, as you know, that's important to publicize that concept to your patients in particular... One of my favorites is called A-B. M. Agaricus Blaze, I Merrill. Have you heard the ABM mushroom?


0:50:00.6 S1: I have not...


0:50:02.4 S2: That's worth looking into. You're gonna really like it. Look that up. It's fascinating, the story goes back to the 70s, and it goes back to some Japanese researchers over in Brazil, so the Japanese are really advanced with their medicinal mushroom research and application, as you may know, they used it over there in mainstream medicine, even... I think they have chemotherapy regimens that are derived from mushrooms... Okay, they'll give it to IV cancer patients. It's very advanced, so that they're always looking... They're always on the forefront of research. Back in the 70s, their Japanese researchers were over in Salalah, Brazil, and they're up in this little area in the forest with his group of people, and basically these villagers are saying they feel like they live long, they're healthy, they're strong, they're robust and they... Colter secret is this mushroom that they harvest that was found in only in this local area. So the Japanese researchers take a few samples, take it back in Japan, start breaking it down the lab, seeing how active it is compared to other mushroom extract, etcetera, and the answer is, the amazing result is this thing is about... Let's just throw a number out four to five times as potent as their best known mushroom extract up to that point, it was truly super point its immune system abilities.


0:51:17.7 S2: Since then, there's been a whole ground swell of nutritional companies coming around to produce a BM mushroom extracts, you can buy it as a powder, sometimes capsules. My favorite, my most economical is actually a capsule brand from Swanson. So Swanson vitamins is a company out of South Dakota, a family-owned business started in the 60s, they sold out recently to some larger company, but they still have a very good product, very of reputation, so that's why most cost-effective recommendations, Swanson vitamins, A-B-M-mushroom extract, but when you read about ABM, you'll see how point is, it's amazing. And the other thing I mentioned is a strong immune system is an anti-cancer immune system, right. A lot of people don't quite realize that, they're thinking, Oh, my immune systems in their fighting covid fight in a flu fighting back to our infection, pneumonia. Yep, that's true, but you know what else it does? It's constantly surveying your body, identifying cancer and destroying it, if it is strong, a strong immune system is an antique cancer immune system, and therefore anything that boost your immune system like a bush strong anticancer property.


0:52:25.9 S1: Wow, thank you for sharing that. That's amazing insight. It's been a great, great time chatting with you, I've learned so much and I think our audience is gonna be really receptive to this messaging, and then I know for one, I'm gonna go look into this FL CCC right away and also into ABM mushrooms and... Good to know I'm on NEC and vitamin C. I'm on the right track with that. I gotta get back to my exercising, I've kind of slacked off a bit because of the brain inflammation I've been going through, Iris, not fun to exercise when your brain's hurting, but any last minute things that you would like to share, focusing on what we've talked about around... The brain and brain health in general, which again, I factor in this conversation about covid and the spike protein directly into brain health as well, so anything you'd like to share as we close...


0:53:29.7 S2: I think overall, my point would be, we have to take it to the level of action, right, it's easy to sit and listen to a podcast that's very passive, it's easy to have our emotions be worked up and say, Oh, that sounds exciting. That sounds good. That's still passive. We still haven't done anything. We haven't done anything. So we've actually done something. So my encouragement is take an action item, just one or two things, maybe even just one thing from the talk of it, you don't have to do 10 things, you don't have to remember everything we talk about, but pick one thing that you actually follow through it and start making it a part of your life. Maybe it's your resolution to get some exercise every day because of how good it is for your brain, maybe it's You're gonna take nap every day because it's an anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidant and that's healthy for your brain, and maybe it's... You gonna start ABM mushroom extract, 'cause that'll bust your immune system, boost your CD4 CD8 cell counts and protect against cancer, like whatever it is, make one decision at least, and just start to fall through with it and build from there, that's a segue into action.


0:54:28.9 S2: That's my suggestion.


0:54:30.3 S1: That's great, thank you so much, Dr. Turn, I'd love to stay in touch with you, and I think I'd love to even maybe schedule another time with you later down the road to just check in and see what's on your mind and what you're seeing and have you share with our audience 'cause it's very valuable information, and I really appreciate it. And for anybody listening, if you wanna share your... You do remote work, do you wanna share your website with our audience or any... How would people get in touch with you if they wanna explore your remote services? Sure.


0:55:02.7 S2: The best way is Dr. Turner, Dr. Turner sub-stack. Sub-stack, sub-stack dot com. So Dr. Turner sub-stack dot com. That's the single best way because that's got all of my articles, it's got all of my podcast episodes, and then that also links out to my web page for my practice where you can book an appointment depending on my availability, etcetera. So that's one-stop shopping is my sub-stack, Dr. Turner, BSAC dot com.


0:55:30.7 S1: Awesome, thank you so much, Dr. Turner, I hope you have a great day. And just a wonderful life. Keep doing what you're doing and thank you.


0:55:38.1 S2: Alright, you were welcome in to go do to...


0:55:40.3 S1: Okay, take care.


0:55:41.0 S2: You guys as always. This episode is brought to you by packed with life tea. Always talk about how much I love it and I don't have any sweetner or anything like that, just great tasting mushroom tea packed with organic adaptions, including the four key mushrooms, Lion's Mane, Chaga, Cordyceps and Reishi, of course, it tastes great hot or over ice as well, if that's your thing. And some people like to add a little bit of honey, but either way, no matter how you like your tea, you're gonna love to see and it will boost your immune system, brain, lungs and gut, that's why it's packed with life, so get yours today at packedwithlife.com.




197 views0 comments
bottom of page